steampunk and Victorian women

[marycatelli]

I have heard some rash statements about the reality of women's lives in the Victorian era and what steampunk can do to subvert it.  It shows a certain tendency to treat an entire country, in a period that lasted decades, as a uniform mass. which is unwise.  Wallowing in primary sources is a good way to counteract that block.

And it's amazing where you will turn up enlightenment.  For instance, reading about the Pre-Raphaelites, and coming across Millais's Order of Release, which you can check out here.

Which, when it was released, got some reviews.  Such as

Instead of the eye dimmed even with a tear, it looks defiance, as if she had contested at some previous time the matter with the jailer, and looks a triumph, as much as to say, "I've won, and so pay me." Instead of tenderness, she is the hardest looking creature you can imagine. . . . And a friend of ours said aloud, "I would rather remain in prison all my life, or even be hanged, than go out of prison to live with that woman;

and

The subject is simply that of a wife, with child in her arms, coming with an order of release for her husband, who has been taken in the Civil Wars. The husband, overcome with emotions, and weak from a recent wound (his arm is in a sling), can but fall upon her neck and weep; moan, "firm of purpose," sheds no tear; she has none to shed; but her eye is red and heavy with weeping and waking; and she looks at the stern and unconcerned gaoler with a proud look, expressing that she has won the reward for all her trouble past.

Not only do the views conflict, it was the second one that was popular.  They had to put up a guard on the painting at the exhibit.  They had only had to put up a railing for popular paintings before, and that only a few times.

Or at a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta.

Gold.: Are you really under the impression that English girls are
so ridiculously demure? Why, an English girl of the highest
type is the best, the most beautiful, the bravest, and the
brightest creature that Heaven has conferred upon this world
of ours. She is frank, open-hearted, and fearless, and
never shows in so favorable a light as when she gives her
own blameless impulses full play!

Nekaya Oh, you shocking story!
and
Kalyba:

Gold.: Not at all. I’m speaking the strict truth. I’ll tell you
all about her.

SONG — Mr. Goldbury.

A wonderful joy our eyes to bless,
In her magnificent comeliness,
Is an English girl of eleven stone two,
And five foot ten in her dancing shoe!
She follows the hounds, and on the pounds–
The “field” tails off and the muffs diminish–

Over the hedges and brooks she bounds,
Straight as a crow, from find to finish.
At cricket, her kin will lose or win–
She and her maids, on grass and clover,
Eleven maids out–eleven maids in–
And perhaps an occasional “maiden over!”

Go search the world and search the sea,
Then come you home and sing with me
There’s no such gold and no such pearl
As a bright and beautiful English girl!

With a ten-mile spin she stretches her limbs,
She golfs, she punts, she rows, she swims–
She plays, she sings, she dances, too,
From ten or eleven til all is blue!
At ball or drum, til small hours come
(Chaperon’s fans concealing her yawning)
She’ll waltz away like a teetotum.
And never go home til daylight’s dawning.
Lawn-tennis may share her favours fair–
Her eyes a-dance, and her cheeks a-glowing–
Down comes her hair, but then what does she care?
It’s all her own and it’s worth the showing!
Go search the world, etc.

Her soul is sweet as the ocean air,
For prudery knows no haven there;
To find mock-modesty, please apply
To the conscious blush and the downcast eye.
Rich in the things contentment brings,
In every pure enjoyment wealthy,
Blithe and beautiful bird she sings,
For body and mind are hale and healthy.
Her eyes they thrill with right goodwill–
Her heart is light as a floating feather–
As pure and bright as the mountain rill
That leaps and laughs in the Highland heather!
Go search the world, etc.

QUARTET

Nek.: Then I may sing and play?

Lord D.: You may!

Kal.: Then I may laugh and shout?

Gold.: No doubt!.

Nek.: These maxims you endorse?

Lord D.: Of course!

Kal.: You won’t exclaim “Oh fie!”

Gold.: Not I!

Gold: Whatever you are–be that:
Whatever you say–be true:
Straightforwardly act–
Be honest–in fact,
Be nobody else but you.

Lord D.: Give every answer pat–
Your character true unfurl;
And when it is ripe,
You’ll then be a type
Of a capital English girl.

All.: Oh sweet surprise–oh, dear delight,
To find it undisputed quite,
All musty, fusty rules despite
That Art is wrong and Nature right!

Nek.: When happy I,
With laughter glad
I’ll wake the echoes fairly,
And only sigh
When I am sad–
And that will be but rarely!

Kal.: I’ll row and fish,
And gallop, soon–
No longer be a prim one–
And when I wish
To hum a tune,
It needn’t be a hymn one?

Gold and Lord D.: No, no!
It needn’t be a hymn one!

All (dancing): Oh, sweet surprise and dear delight
To find it undisputed quite–
All musty, fusty rules despite–
That Art is wrong and Nature right

Comments

[cutelildrow.livejournal.com]

I confess to wondering where the idea that all Victorian age women were weak, silly and fainting flowers came from (not to say that there weren't some). Similarly, the misconception that the Japanese version, the yamato nadeshiko was a weakling. The highest idealistic versions of the English Rose and the Yamato Nadeshiko were, if you read it carefully, master manipulators and subtle in getting things done (and had a strange way of portraying that men could be rather neatly manipulated through their pride and ego. The power existed, as did the strength, but it is a mistake to dismiss it simply because it isn't a physical power.

mama too tight

[pigshitpoet.livejournal.com]

it came from wearing the proverbial corset which cut off their circulation and cause them often to faint. japanese women bound their feet so as to tread lightly, but i feel sorry, because that was probably more painful than wearing high heels, which were meant to entice men into amorous pursuit, manipulating men through pride and ego, was a very important part of how women really kept control of the male counterpart, even though they feigned submission, we all know who wore the pants, so to speak. lisistrata protested the greek senate to cut men off from conjugal rights it their needs weren't being met, so from early on we have gender power struggle culminating in the war of the roses, a telling movie about american savoir faire, which they co-opted from the french. cunning is strength for some. victorian was a really masked as social repression. today, i think we have become objects of the state. now we are simply machinations of our poor imaginations. men or women, it matters not, gay or straight it matters little these days. just surviving is the game. i feel sorry for the human race.
psp

Re: mama too tight

[cutelildrow.livejournal.com]

As I recall, it was the Chinese who practiced foot binding. The effect of swaying for the Japanese was achieved with tall wooden sandals.

Yamato nadeshiko and highborn Japanese ladies of the age were also expected to know how to use the naginata, a spear like weapon that's more like a sword on a long pole, to defend their home, children, and honor. This echoes the ladies of the frontier, who were frequently alone with children and I read that they also knew how to shoot.

However, you misinterpret my point, which was that the ideal woman (of the Victorian, or even older age) was the master of a type of strength at odds with the image of a weak, submissive Victorian female. The examples I gave agree with the OP's assertion that there are plenty of examples of strong women upheld as ideal even in the Victorian age.

Re: mama too tight

[marycatelli]

Yes, footbinding is Chinese.

Re: mama too tight

[marycatelli]

That is a grotesque distortion of the corset, and if you say that to any woman who currently wears one, you will annoy her -- quite justly. There are women who wear corsets to go dancing, and others who wear them for back support and report that if anything, they are more comfortable than bras.

Re: mama too tight

[pigshitpoet.livejournal.com]

oh

i stand corrected

maybe a corset can also help men with back problems?

so... what were we actually talking about?

Re: mama too tight

[pigshitpoet.livejournal.com]

oh yes, [the ideal woman (of the Victorian, or even older age) was the master of a type of strength at odds with the image of a weak, submissive Victorian female..]

so, then what is the image of strength of that era?

[akilika.livejournal.com]

I also admit to being confused, because... well, while I haven't read MUCH Victorian literature, that which I did read didn't feature meek and cloistered women. Ehh?

(That and, even if it was absolutely the cultural ideal, the cultural ideal never applies to everyone--and it's, of course, extremely difficult to know how people operate in private. Add on marycatelli's point that it's a whole country over several days and... well... yeah.)

[cutelildrow.livejournal.com]

Certainly, Ma Ingalls didn't strike me as a weak woman! Nor do most the women I used to read about from the Frontier.

[marycatelli]

To be sure, surviving on the frontier called for uncommon toughness in man as well as woman.

[marycatelli]

The problem is the people who get it from secondary sources. I've heard them myself. . .

[marycatelli]

Extremely selective reading, a tendency to mix up ideals with reality, a hatred of everything feminine so that domestic work, not receiving wages, and not having the vote prove you are passive, and wishful thinking -- it does, after all, allow them to preen over their superiority.

i'm in love with the little red haired girl..

[pigshitpoet.livejournal.com]

i believe you speak of virtues? what about wit? doesn't she have to have wit? she, who must be obeyed.. in love with the little red haired girl..
charlie brown

...i understood the pre-raphaelites, especially rossetti to be womanizers. are you saying that millais was one who was more compassionate and empathetic towards the fairer sex? moreso than the proverbial rest? art is woman, i have often said, but then i may be biased towards it. for all the demoiselles and femme fatales, i'll always love the little red haired girl.. all my youth, i wanted to adore, worship and protect women, probably from trying to please my mother. but then came ruskin who said beauty can be more than demure, like nature, beauty can be grandeur! that's when i started to see women as landscape, i began to practice drawing from live models, and have found the curves of nature to be neverending.. now i'm in love with a tall red haired woman.. for which rossetti would be jealous..
psp

Re: i'm in love with the little red haired girl..

[marycatelli]

No, I'm not saying that, and I can't imagine why you think I might be.

Even if your accusations about the Pre-Raphaelites were true.

Re: i'm in love with the little red haired girl..

[pigshitpoet.livejournal.com]

ok, then if not virtues then what?

[houseboatonstyx.livejournal.com]

The wife in the painting seems to me oddly peaceful. After strain, yes.

As to strong women, I'm too lazy to look up the dates for Mrs. Rachel Lynde, Miss Cornelia, Mrs. Malcom MacPherson, and even Mrs. Dick Moore. Or Amelia Peabody. Otoh, maybe without the vote or property, they had to come on strong.

[marycatelli]

that's one of my favorite paintings, and that expression is part of it.

that time of month

[pigshitpoet.livejournal.com]

this whole thing reminds me more of trainspotting than some victorian moral etiquette

There’s no such gold and no such pearl
As a bright and beautiful English girl!

With a ten-mile spin she stretches her limbs,
She golfs, she punts, she rows, she swims–
She plays, she sings, she dances, too,
From ten or eleven til all is blue!
At ball or drum, til small hours come
(Chaperon’s fans concealing her yawning)
She’ll waltz away like a teetotum.

Re: that time of month

[pigshitpoet.livejournal.com]

oh yes, and why "steampunk" per se?