geography of fairy tales

[marycatelli]

The tales actually have quite a bit. It's just not detailed. The prince has to go past thrice-nine kingdoms to rescue the frog-princess after burning her frog-skin means the witch abducts her. Or, somewhat less specified, the heroine has to go east of the sun and west of the moon to rescue the prince after burning his bearskin means the witch abducts him.

Been pondering questions such as how long does it take to walk across a kingdom (assuming good roads), and how much of the kingdom is covered with forests where witches and trolls and bandits and dragons. Some of those kingdoms seem distinctly small, given that walking from one to another is not a problem. On the other hand -- the tales may say of the journey, "Speedily a tale is spun, with less speed a deed is done."

And if they are that small, there's economic questions. If you have a kingdom you can walk across in three or four days, how many servants can you afford at the castle?

Comments

[nodrog]

Gene Wolfe put it well:  If the next continent is as far away as the Moon, then the Moon is only as far away as the next continent.  That's why that one story had a guy fly to the Moon using migrating swans.  Why not?

Updated to add:  Star Wars: the Roleplaying Game addressed this issue in discussing the speed of starships there.  How long does it take to get There?  Answer:  As long as the story requires.  If it's a grueling arduous journey, so be it; if it doesn't matter, t' heck wi' it!

[marycatelli]

Sometimes, when retelling in a more novelistic manner, it matters. Particularly when smashing a lot of fairy tales into a small scope. . . .

I didn't care in The Princess Seeks Her Fortune because crossing a kingdom was never a plot point (or even happened), but I've got the notion of a fairytale setting where it will.

[nodrog]

I surmise that role-playing games may have played a role in that.  (So to speak.)  Tolkien's Middle Earth seemingly had only one road, called the Road, and it bore no traffic.  The only settlements shown are those that figured in the story, and you got to them by hiking cross-country.  There's no commerce, no manufacturing, indeed only one place outside the Shire even seemed to have farms.  Uh huh.  Compare that to MAR Barker's Tékumel of The Empire of the Petal Throne et al, with its network of walled Sakhbé roads and tessellated landscape of settlements past and present. Referees and DMs must have actual maps, showing roads and towns and all like that. 

So yah, today The Hills of Faraway need a compass bearing and contour mapping!

[marycatelli]

Eh, Tolkien spent a lot of time working out distances and travel and coordinating how Frodo and Sam time line interlaced with the others.

[nodrog]

The Appendices of TLotR are, to me, every bit as interesting as the main story.  One other case of that is Frank Herbert's Dune.  Fascinating backstory & sidelights.

[marycatelli]

Some of it, even though relegated there, really was essential for the plot.

Re: A Lot of Time

[nodrog]

And as you may recall, I had my own

https://nodrog.dreamwidth.org/1845076.html

ideas on this.