Religion and World-Building
Jul. 20th, 2008 04:03 pmMost religions in fantasy are very badly written. This is because most fantasy religions don't really exist. A conglomeration of Bad Guys Out To Do Bad Things is not a religion. The Good Guys who are everything Nice and Wholesome and Twenty-first Century are not much better. And a power source for the magician you call a cleric is not a god.
Some world-building advice says to start with the creation of the world. I advise against it. Even if you are developing the world first in hope of triggering story ideas, I advise against it. For one thing, that means that your world is going to have a creation myth, and you've already boxed yourself in with that decision. Many religions don't, and haven't. Even in those with creation myths, the religion may not give much prominence to it.
In fact, myths are a dangerous source of information. Even accurate, unhomogenized, and from the source myths. I've read fantasies that clearly got their religion from neatened, homogenized, put-into-order myth books (and quite possibly written for children). Cicero's On the Nature of the Gods gives a pagan's eyes view of their disorder, with mild comments about how many Jupiters there have to be, to match all the myths of his birth. And their character can differ wildly. Compare any of the mythological tales you can run across about Ares, to this picture, drawn by the Homeric Hymns: "Restrain also the keen fury of my heart which provokes me to tread the ways of blood-curdling strife. Rather, O blessed one, give you me boldness to abide within the harmless laws of peace, avoiding strife and hatred and the violent fiends of death." And, indeed, many religions were not big on myths. The Romans imported all the Greek myths because they had virtually none of their own. The Egyptians had gods of locations; only when they unified into one country did the gods of the triumphant cities take on mythological, sphere-of-influence roles, and these tended to shift as the fortunes of cities rose and fell.
Better than myths are primary sources about the actual religious practices. What rituals are actually performed. What festivals are celebrated. What acts are required, or forbidden. Reading a lot of these, even of cultures you have no desire to
Looking at these, you will soon find that there are two types: religions that are fully built into their societies and have no rivals, and religions that grow in contrast to other religious beliefs. Hinduism, Shinto, and Greek/Roman paganism are instances of the former; Christianity and Buddhism of the later. The first class don't have names
until an instance of the second class comes along, if then; Hinduism and Shinto were named in contrast to Buddhism, and since "pagan" means a person neither a Christian nor a Jew nor a Muslim, Greek/Roman paganism hasn't really been named YET.
The first class tends to be highly syncretistic, which is to say that it can pull in all sorts of gods and practices from other regions and even other religions. Frequently this is done by identifying gods with other nation's vaguely similar gods: in the Roman times, the god Mercury was identified with the Greek god Hermes, with the Egyptian god Thoth, and -- get this -- with the German god Odin. This sometimes happened with the second class; in Japan, a oracle of the sun goddess Amaterasu (Shinto) identified Buddhist priests as the correct people to perform funeral rites. People who practice this type of religion in the absence of a contrasting religion of the second type aren't aware of their practices as religious.
Obviously, since the second class comes in to being by contrasting with the first class, it defines its doctrines more strongly and obviously excludes a great deal more, since exclusion is a necessary part of definition.Which class you pick will have a lot of effect on your society.
The religion's practices may not conform to the actual practices of its worshipers, or even the code they really lived by. It doesn't mean they don't really believe; it means they are lax. In Malory's Le Morte D'Arthur, you have chapters of noble knights -- and then, suddenly, the Grail shows up and all these noble knights are ignoble, being proud, violent, and unchaste. Samurai in Japan defy both Shinto, which holds that death and blood are defiling, and Buddhism, which denounces violence; the conflicts have featured in many a story about samurai.
And at some point, the religion shades off into magic. It may be disapproved of, it may be approved of, but people will use religious artifacts, prayers, invocations of the gods, to secure the birth of a child, to make it rain, to punish a thief, to sell a house.
Behind these lie the theology of the characters. It need not be formalized and developed, but it will exist, and in some detail; it will not be summed up as "the gods hate [selected innocent groups]". I have read a fantasy novel in which three religions are depicted. One worships the sun; one worships the moon; one worships some stars. The first two oppress the third. These are not religions. What does the sun do? What are the powers? What do the sun-worshipers regard the moon and those stars as?
religion, you would worship any appropriate god. The king would of course worship the god of kingship, but because he would want heirs, the goddess of fertility as well, and because he would want his country's merchants
to do well for tax purposes, the god of oceans, etc. etc. Priests and priestess may be in charge of propitiating all the appropriate gods. Even single-purpose priests would act as worshipers of other gods as appropriate; the idea that a priest of the marriage god should not participate in a harvest festival would be regarded as very dangerous, it might offend the god of the harvest.
Euripides's Hippolytys depicts how the actual polytheists view a man who worshiped only one god, the goddess Artemis in this case: a dangerous lunatic who will bring down the wrath of the other gods. Hippolytys's exclusive worship of Artemis is his tragic flaw.
On the other hand, a god probably does not fit a neat, schematic diagram of spheres of influence. Poseidon was the god of both the sea and horses. Apollo is the god of archery, logic, poetry, and prophecy. So one god can, indeed cover a lot of bases.Be wary about bringing the gods out on center stage. Now, if you can do it, it's grand -- I think Gene Wolfe managed
to pull it off in Soldier of the Mists. But if you can't, it's very bad indeed. And since a god should be a dreadful, awe-inspiring, numinous being, it is very difficult to be convincing with one.
Finally, under no circumstances whatsoever may you call a priest of any stripe -- a cleric.
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Date: 2008-07-20 09:57 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2008-07-20 10:16 pm (UTC)Getting religion right in fantasy is pretty much the same as getting anything else right, I think. You have to be consistent.
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Date: 2008-07-20 11:05 pm (UTC)Your monotheistic religion isn't going to appear in the same sort of society as a polytheistic one -- or a different monotheistic one.
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Date: 2008-07-20 10:28 pm (UTC)I never knew that about the White Goddess, etc. etc., but that makes so much sense. I always felt wrong about that even while wanting to like it. It just felt too mapped out to be real. Real religions have odd randomity factors that people's created systems never do.
I understand, viscerally, the desire to pray to different gods for different things. I was tempted to pray to any deity devoted to erotic love, a ways back. *sigh* I superstitiously decided against it...
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Date: 2008-07-21 12:36 am (UTC)The Victorian mythologizing about the Triple Goddess and the Great Mother Goddess, OTOH, got caught up in agendas.
Very sad.
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Date: 2008-07-21 04:10 am (UTC)A keen observation. Though keeping that in mind, you might add in some random aspects and give a more organic feel to a created religion. And if you could take a time to age it a while, so much the better.
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Date: 2008-07-22 07:13 pm (UTC)Every religion was new, once, and none of them (including this neo-Pagan family of beliefs) comes from nothing at all. (One could argue that some revelatory systems, such as Mormonism and even Islam, were made up whole-cloth by one person as well, but few dispute the functionality of the first or the validity of the second as religions.)
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2008-07-22 07:15 pm (UTC) - Expand"made up"?
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Date: 2008-07-20 11:12 pm (UTC)I hope you don't mind if I link to this.
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Date: 2008-07-21 12:13 am (UTC)Link away!
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Date: 2008-07-21 12:13 am (UTC)It does leave me with a question, though. What about patron deities in a polytheistic religion? I'm Hindu, and I'm very clearly a Ganesha kid over all else. Doesn't mean I'm ignoring the rest, but that's how I work, and there are family reasons for it.
So I've used that concept to give patron deities to my germanic-pagan families/guilds. They don't look *only* to their patron deity -- that seems to me to be a monotheistic assumption -- but other people do look askance at them if their *primary* loyalty is not to the patron deity.
Is this at all sensible? It is based on my family's practices, but then we also have a catholic-school background in my family, so it's possible that "You have to pick one to be primary" came in from there.
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Date: 2008-07-21 12:30 am (UTC)Where the stuff gets tricky is if the gods have spheres of influence. It's not impossibly tricky -- obviously Athena has spheres of influence, such as weaving and war, and also Athens. Putting too much emphasis on the spheres can be problematic.
Germanic tribes had spheres-of-influence gods. Witness Tactitus's famous comment that the chief god of the Germans was Mercury. (Which is how we know they identified Odin with Mercury.) But it could fit in with having families under their aegis. Indeed, people may regard a god as having a sphere of influence because his family has good luck in that arena. (Assuming, of course, that the gods do not intervene so often that such views aren't set straight quickly.)
Guilds are easy to fit in with spheres of influence. The beer-making guild goes under the god of beer. Etc.
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Date: 2008-07-21 02:08 am (UTC)The boundaries were not so much blurry as something to laugh at, and it made my head hurt.
I would love to study the history of the religion more, to see if that's just a further development of what the Romans did, assimilating local gods into whatever Roman deity they most resembled.
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Date: 2008-07-21 12:37 am (UTC)Yes, this. They are not religions; they are just Christianity, Islam, and Judaism except not. My alt is pasted on yay. It's like the alt!Tudor novel I read where everybody was pagan and yet the Henry Tudor/Catherine of Aragon/Anne Boleyn conflict played on unchanged.
I need to read the Cicero now. Thanks. (Got a favorite translation? My Latin, always weak, is pretty much gone.)
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Date: 2008-07-21 03:12 am (UTC)Crystal Dragon Jesus
Date: 2008-07-21 03:22 am (UTC)Good discussion of it here.
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Date: 2008-07-21 01:25 am (UTC)I can't help myself testing your comments against what I learned as a religion major in college; in doing so, I'm finding them very sound.
And I then test my own invented religions against your comments, and find some work better than others.
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Date: 2008-07-21 03:35 am (UTC)Hope you find the reflections useful henceforth. 0:)
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Date: 2008-07-21 02:50 am (UTC)these apply to a religon created by the people of your fantacy world.
How would you apply them to a fantacy world where the 'god' is 'real' and will show up to smite the bad guy or give you a child or kick you a** if you don't give him your tribuit?
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Date: 2008-07-21 03:19 am (UTC)Lois McMaster Bujold's Chalion stuff is about the most invasive gods can be for me as a reader.
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Date: 2008-07-21 11:45 pm (UTC)Futuristic religions can fall flat on their faces in that the writer doesn't investigate what about the religion changes and what doesn't. I've seen SF where the religion's fundamental doctrines are tossed aside and quite trivial matters -- often the logical consequence of the disposed-of doctrines -- are preserved.
Study how religions change, would be your best bet.
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Date: 2008-07-21 07:00 pm (UTC)Thank you!
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Date: 2008-07-21 11:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-22 04:02 pm (UTC)Professional Management. The singular godly attribute is omnipotence precipitating furious destruction (test of faith!). Centralized management is mathematically constrained (http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/comprom.htm) to fail as despot or milquetoast. I've got your God right here...
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Date: 2008-07-22 07:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-23 12:32 am (UTC)Unreliability of Myths
Date: 2008-07-24 06:44 am (UTC)Also remember: your world's (or culture's) dominant creation myth may not be true. Genesis isn't, so why do you assume that the people in your fantasy world have better access to information?
Or, maybe they do have better access to information, but they don't understand it very well. There are some correspondences between Genesis and the Earth's true natural history. Maybe the god who informed them what happened told them the "quick and dirty" version and left out the timescales and the definitions of half the terms.
Myths in general don't have to be true. Even if the gods do speak to their worshippers, and make themselves understood plainly, the gods could be lying. Or omitting things. Or they told the absolute honest truth, but only once, and it's gotten a bit distorted since then.
Myths can be contradictory. This could, in a polytheistic world, be propaganda. Ares says that he's the Decider of Battles and Athena's just a silly girl playing with a spear. Athena says that she's the Goddess of Heroes and Ares is just a big blustering coward. Who's right? What if both are, or neither?
Even if you (the story creator) have a very good idea of what really happened, and what the gods really are and how their power really works -- it doesn't mean that any mortal in your world has this knowledge.
How would mortals know, really?
Re: Unreliability of Myths
Date: 2008-07-25 01:51 am (UTC)OTOH, if the falsity doesn't come up in the tale, it hardly matters.
And if your story doesn't focus on figuring out what is real, greater-than-realistic accuracy is a good way to move the story along to the interesting stuff.
Re: Unreliability of Myths
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